Vacations with your ex-spouse?
September 26, 2009 by Kela Price
Filed under Stepfamilies
Lately, I’ve come across a few blog posts that suggest, encourage and even advocate for ex-spouses spending time together with their children of divorce. Some even suggest vacationing once a year with the divorced family. They feel that doing so will be beneficial to the kids because it’s one time of the year or week when they don’t have to choose between their parents. Interesting- I thought to myself. I’ll be the first to admit that there isn’t a one size fits all approach to blending a family and what works for one family may not work the other. This approach definitely wouldn’t work for mine.
Although the posts suggest that this idea is beneficial to the children because it’s one day of the week or one time of the year when the child faces no loyalty binds, I’ve seen the exact opposite in my family. For example, my ex, his wife and my husband and I get along pretty well. I’ve been invited over to their house for different gatherings and they, including their son are welcome in my home as well. And although my son loves the fact that we all get along, in the beginning, I could sense the awkardness and level of discomfort he experienced when we are all together. It actually put him in a position of having to choose because he didn’t know who to gravitate to in that situation; his bonus dad and I, whom he is very close to, or his bio dad and bonus mom, whom he was developing a connection with. I could tell that he didn’t want to hurt any of our feelings and vowed to never put him in that situation again. I wanted him to develop a positive connection that was independent of me with his paternal side of the family. One that I always encourage, but don’t necessarily actively participate in. Meaning, it’s not necessary for me to go family trips, attend holiday gatherings or spend time with their family. As a matter of fact, it’s healthier for my son to develop these relationships and connections with his dad and stepmom without me.
Additionally, my son has no desire to spend time with my ex and I. It feels awkard to him, like everyone isn’t in their rightful place. Yet, he is still aware that his mother and father love him, but are just with different people now who also love him. As such, he doesn’t feel as if he’s missing out or that he has to choose between any of us. We all encourage our independent relationships with him as well as act friendly towards each other when in his presence. This has been enough for our son, who is a well-adjusted, high-achieving, compassionate little boy. It didn’t take weekly dinners between my ex and I and yearly vacations for us to achieve this. It took us all working together, in a friendly manner that is based on mutual respect, love for our child and lots of communication.
Also, taking a yearly vacation with your ex-spouse and children of divorce can be quite expensive and unrealistic if you both are remarried. Why? Because my husband and I also take yearly vacations with our family and so does my ex and his family. As you can imagine, unless you have an endless pot of money at the end of some rainbow, this can be quite costly. I’d be going on a vacation with my ex and our son, my husband would go with his ex and their son, and then we’d all go with our blended families as well. Whew! That’s a lot of vacations during the year! This may work for divorced couples who don’t have any commitments to other spouses, their children together, etc., but it would be rather difficult for ex-spouses who are both remarried and have children with their current spouses. Yep, kind of difficult. Ideally, it sounds good, I guess, if you want to further confuse the child about the divorce in the first place, but it isn’t realistic.
Bear in mind that this is my opinion based on my experience and maybe it’s different with boys versus girls. But I know that my husband and his ex-spouse attempted this whole let’s do everything together for the sake of our son thing (before I came along). They even moved back in with each other after they separated for the sake of their son or pure convenience, and for YEARS all my bonus son dreamed of was them getting back together (and they weren’t even together for 3 years of his life prior to their separation and his parents argued ALL THE TIME). Kids don’t understand words, they understand actions. And you can tell them all day long that mommy and daddy are divorced and we do not plan to get back together, but if you’re still taking vacations together and living in the same house, trust me, they are not paying attention to what you say, but what you do.
On the other hand, my son adjusted well to his biological parents not being together (and we were together for almost 4 years of my son’s life AND WE DIDN’T ARGUE) and was more accepting of my husband when he came along. He saw it as an added bonus instead of a threat to this fantasy of his mom and dad being back together. We’ve [his bio dad and I] always reinforced our love for him and have encouraged him to love his step-parents as well. We’ve told him that we will always be there for him, but have never wanted to confuse him by still playing house even though we weren’t together.
As a result, based on my experience and statistical research, I will have to conclude that this idea of vacationing with ex-spouses and/or spending weekly time together with the children is not a very good idea for most. In most cases the very thing that divorced parents are trying not to do (hurt and confuse their children), they just might end up doing anyway, as in the case with my bonus son. Overall, parents should be careful in allowing their emotions or intellect to guide their decision for their children of divorce. Make sure it’s something that your children will benefit from in the long run and not something you think they want because it’s what you want.
What about you TMF readers? How many of you vacation with your ex-spouse and/or have a weekly dinner or lunch with him or her and your children together? How does this arrangement work for you? How do you explain it to your children? We’d be interested in hearing if and how it actually works for other families.
Disclaimer: For the record, I am not telling families who do participate in these types of divorce rituals that they are wrong and should do things my way. I am simply stating that, according to research and based on my personal experience, that it didn’t/doesn’t work for my family. As I stated in the beginning of the post, I’m aware that there isn’t a one size fits all approach to blending a family. That being said, I don’t want women or men to feel compelled to take yearly vacations with their ex-spouse because they think it’s the ONLY way the children will be well-adjusted. This is certainly not the case.
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There are certainly no ‘one size fits all’ answers. And what works for some will definitely not work for others. But I actually am an advocate of divorced parents spending time together (if possible and if comfortable) with their children now and then. It’s something my parents never did, so I can’t really tell you how it went from my own experience. But I can tell you why I wish it had happened for me.
I was three when my parents separated. I took it quite well. I was a rather shy and easy child and never wanted or even thought I was entitled to the ‘want’ for my parents to get back together. They were divorced; end of story. At their best they parallel parented and at their worst they didn’t speak at all. I, like your son never even really wanted to spend time together with them because it *would* have felt awkward and I *wouldn’t* have known what to do or how to act. As a child I never saw my parents interact with my own eyes. Can you imagine? I don’t have a single memory of them together as a couple when I was a child, and I don’t have a single memory of them talking, co-parenting, working together or anything in each other’s presence. And I was fine with that. I never felt I was missing out on anything or needed anything more from them.
And then I grew up.
So now I’m an adult, facing endless events that cannot be split in two. My graduation, my wedding, my bridal shower, the births of my children, my birthdays, my husband’s birthdays, my children’s birthdays, my children’s christenings, my children’s school plays….you get the idea.
And all of these events lend a particular level of stress for me and for them. Because it is awkward and we don’t know how to act. I don’t know what to expect, from them or myself. And I can’t help but wonder if we had practiced all those years ago, if it would be easier today. If I could rest easier because they had proven to me with my own eyes that we could all be together focused on the same thing and make it through the event unscathed. Because I’m in my mid thirties and I have two children and we’re all still stumbling around in the dark.
It sounds like you have a much healthier co-parenting relationship with your ex husband than my parents did, and maybe my families issues will never parallel your’s. But I would caution co-parents to look at this issue in a long term sense as well as in the here and now. Because when your kids are kids, it’s pretty easy to keep things separate and to even be separate at their children’s events (not sitting together at school functions and such).
But that’s not so easy when down the road your going to your child’s house for your grandchild’s birthday party, when suddenly your ex is sitting across the table from you singing ‘Happy Birthday’.
My stepson is much like your son – he has no desire to see his parents spend time together. He is acutely aware of the toxicity of their relationship and does not care to have that energy in his life anymore. Like your son, he adjusted well to his parents’ breakup (minus some serious alienation issues). He totally gets that his parents don’t like anything about each other and he’s mostly okay with that…he’s got his thang with mom and he’s got his thang with us. And he values them both. Dang, I’m one lucky stepmom!
I agree with you that “playing house” when you’re not together can really confuse the kids…but, for some people it might work.
Can’t wait to read the comments and see what everyone else has to say…
Carolyn,
Your insight is always appreciated. Thank you. I can see your position, however, in my experience it has not taken weekly dinners or yearly vacations for my ex and I, his wife and my husband to be in the same room. We’ve attended sporting events, birthday parties and other events involving our son, together with no anomosity or problem at all. As a matter of fact, as I’ve explained in the post, we are all pretty friendly with each other. As such, in the future, I don’t forsee a problem when my son get’s older, graduates, gets married or has his first child. I am absolutely confident that we will ALL happily and actively participate in those experiences with him. But again, it has not taken (and I know other couples who operate like we do), family dinners between my ex and I, or yearly vacations. I think the myth is that if you force a divorced couple to do those things, practice as you say, then all of sudden the tension will ease when they are together and the child will be so happy. But for most, who experience high-conflict divorces, doing so will only make matters worse and that certainly isn’t good for the child. Personally, when my husband and his ex-wife tried this sort of thing, I vividly remember my bonus son and my bio son sitting at the kitchen table talking about how much my husband and his ex-wife seemed to hate each other. Kids aren’t stupid and even through silence and putting up unrealistic fronts for their sake, they can see right through it. In my experience, my son has largely benefited just from seeing ALL of his parents work together and get along. I just don’t think it’s necessary for us to go any further with dinners and vacations. As a matter of fact, I would even say that the reason we do get along is because we’ve established healthy boundaries between our two families. We are two equal parts, working together, but separately, if that makes any sense. We encourage our son to connect with each family member, but my ex doesn’t have to go play golf once a week with my husband in order to do that.
Our way has worked tremendously for our son. But I’ve seen catastrophic results doing things the other way, in my own blended family with my husband and his ex-wife. They tried it, but the whole “for the sake of the kids” way turned into a sense of entitlement. “I’m the mother so what do you mean I can’t come to your house this year for New Year’s?” It definitely takes mutual respect and healthy boundaries for this sort of thing to work.
Again, thanks for your insight. As a child of divorce (meaning you), I can totally see where you’re coming from.
Grace and Peace,
*Kela*
Eyes Wide Open,
Thanks for your feedback. It’s great when the kids value and are allowed to value both of their families. I’m glad the toxicity of your husband and his ex-wife’s relationship has not ruined that.
My son, however, is aware that his father and I are friendly but we just aren’t made for each other. He has accepted that, maybe because he sees us both in such happy, loving, fulfilled relationships now. For that reason, he has no desire to spend time only with my ex and I. Not because we don’t get along, but because that’s just not how it’s supposed to be, in his eyes. Like your stepson, he has his thing with them and his thing with us and has often expressed that he would’t want it any other way. We all encourage and support his relationships with all of us, but we don’t feel the need or have the desire to be totally engulfed in each other’s lives. But you’re right, for some it might work. However, I’d be interested in hearing at what cost does it work?
Thanks for stopping by!
*Kela*
Although the idea of harmony between ex’s deserves MUCH support, attention, understanding, and applause, perhaps vacationing together is not ideal? If both ex’s have re-partnered up and share separate hotel rooms, and the kids all have another room together, then yeah, I can see it a little more clearly, but the children are delicate–most ALL kids WANT their parents to be re-united. I fear this approach will confuse them more and make them eager to have thoughts such as, “Hey, we’re all getting along as a family! Why don’t you get back together again?” If both parents are very clear with the children that they will not be getting back together and that the vacation is to celebrate their now blended family, and everyone is on healthy, good terms that can communicate well, then yes, go for it!
Otherwise, it won’t be much of a vacation will it? ;P
Hmmm..forgive me here. But no way in heck! I have a 15 year old SD & 11 year old SS. The SS still doesn’t understand why the divorce happened when he was a baby. And my stomach stays in knots whenever I’m around the BM! Kudos to those that have a “relationship” with the BM but that’s not my situation. Hubby and BM do not have a good “post-divorce” relationship due to so much drama BM has caused, going for ages and not letting us see them or talk to them……….so vacation? Not happening!
Hi Jessie! Thanks for your comments. I’ll take it even further and reiterate that I do have a friendly relationship with my ex and his wife, but I still can’t imagine my ex and I vacationing, alone, with our son. In my husband’s case with his ex-wife, I definitely don’t see it happening. I’m afraid that one of them might mysteriously disappear during that vacation. LOL! I guess it’s all kind of oxy moronic to me. It would only work for divorced parents who get along and co-parent great together; but if they are already doing so [getting along and co-parenting great together], then why would they need to take it any further by taking divorced family vacations together? Most claim the reason is so that they kids can see them interacting in a healthy way, but if they already get along and co-parent great together, the kids should already be witnessing them interacting in a healthy way.
But again, there’s no one size fits all approach to blending a family. If it works for some, then I’m happy for them. That being said, I’m still interested in hearing why and how couples achieve this, other than it’s for the sake of the kids.
So glad you chose to tackle this topic, I must say. The expectation that everyone “should” vacation and do holidays together is relatively new, widely embraced, misinformed, and by and large unrealistic. I feel the same way about the new, widely embraced belief that the wife and the ex-wife “should” get along and even be very close. I have written posts on my blog about both these topics. Here are the links:
http://www.wednesdaymartin.com/blog/2009/08/great-expectation-4-you-guys-and-his-ex-can-all-be-best-friends-just-try/
http://www.wednesdaymartin.com/blog/2009/03/demi-and-ashton-cozy-with-bruce-go-to-his-wedding/
I know it works in some cases (I believe you are good friends with your ex-husband’s wife, if I’m remembering correctly?), but way too much is made of these cases in terms of generalizing them to the population at large, assuming everyone “should” be able to do it and “should” making doing so their highest priority, thus creating unrealistic expectations and unnecessary stress all around. How is a remarriage with kids supposed to work if the woman with stepkids, already under so much pressure, is also supposed to be self-abnegating regarding household boundaries and rituals? For the vast majority of the women I interviewed, having holidays together, vacationing together, etc. speaks to an erosion of basic boundaries that made them uncomfortable. I will add that remarriages with children are very fragile. They need a lot of attention and prioritizing before you go piling a lot of other relationships on top of them!
This extra pressure heaped onto already stressed stepfamilies and linked households, this unhelpful expectation that there’s something wrong if everyone isn’t best buddies is counterproductive, to say the least. It’s also fundamentally misguided. You cannot have a divorce without profound change, and a certain degree of pain. There’s no protecting children from that. Yes, you can shield them by not creating loyalty binds or talking trash about your ex. No, you cannot protect them by all pretending that nothing is changed and you’re going to do Thanksgiving and Disney World together for their sake. Kids aren’t stupid, and adults do no one any favors by bending over backwards to alter reality for them.
all the best,
Wednesday
http://www.wednesdaymartin.com
Wednesday,
I totally agree. What divorced parents need to realize that is that divorce means change and they must have known that prior to deciding to get a divorce. Divorce not only means that mom and dad live in different househoulds, but it means that mom and dad will no longer be together in the traditional family sense. It means no more vacations, holiday or family dinners together. Divorce means that things will now be separate…period. That is the reality of divorce and it only confuses a child to try and pretend like nothing has changed after the divorce. Divorced parents can help ease the tranistion for children, without confusing them, by working together during drop off and pick up, being civil and even friendly at school plays, communicating amicably about things involving the child and encouraging their relationships with their step parents. This will give them the opportunity to see their parents interacting in a healthy manner, but it will also give them the freedom to establish meaningful relationships with their step parents and/or stepsiblings as well. In my experience, teaching kids to hold onto their past reality of family only prevents them from accepting their new reality of the stepfamily and makes it that much harder for them to form meaningful relationships. But again, this is my experience and the experience of countless others that I’ve spoken with.
Warmly,
*Kela*
Let me start off by saying Kela that this is a fabulous post. I always enjoy reading other peoples perspective on a subject that directly affects my life. Yes, you are correct in your statement that Julie and and I are bestfriends, and yes, we have established healthy boundaries in our relationship. Now, did we sit down and prepare and agreement on how we were to accomplish this or how we live day-to-day? Absolutely not, it just happened that we became great friends. A lot of our success has been based largely on common courtesy toward one another — without caving in on our individual feelings. We agree to disagree if we have to.
Now, on the matter of blended family vacations and dinners, etc., we have not partaken in those events. However, we have done joint birthday parties and special occasions together (including step-parents) (i.e., school conferences, award ceremonys, etc.) Are there times when just my husband and Julie go to school functions alone? Sure. That doesn’t bother me in the least. Do I think they should go to dinner alone with their daughter in order to keep cohesiveness among the three of them? No. I absolutely agree that would send the wrong message and would possibly create tension between their daughter and her step-parents. Like Kela mentioned, children are not stupid by far. They know when their parents are faking something and when they aren’t.
Honestly, the holidays are really special for our respective blended family and both sides have their own traditions. We have never encroached on eachother’s time but my husband and I are very close the Julie and her husband’s other two daughters and we do exchange gifts with them at Christmas as well as Julie and her husband are very close to my boys. We like to spend a little portion of time together during the holidays — even if it’s only an hour during drop off/pick up on those special days. All I can say about this is that it works for us. We don’t schedule our lives around eachother, we don’t go out of our ways to bend over backwards (neither one of us) and our relationship is not one-sided toward either party but we support eachother in our ventures, our lives and our family. Common courtesy.
I think Julie and I are two very lucky women. Again, there are times when we disagree on a variety of subjects and make our positions known to one another, but we dont stew in our positions so that it harms our family. We state our position and we move on.
Peace and blessings,
Di
Di,
I always appreciate hearing your perspective on issues that we face as blended/stepfamilies. I agree with you and it seems like you and I are speaking the same language. I think school functions, parent/teacher conferences and things of this nature that can’t be split in two, it goes without saying, (I thought) that both parents, if not all parents should be involved in those activities. I don’t even think that exchanging Christmas gifts is totally out of the norm. We all exchange Christmas gifts between each other as well; not just between the kids, but they buy us Christmas gifts and vice versa. I think the question is, is it going too far to suggest that we should take divorced family vacations or carve out time each week for just my ex and I and our son, or just Julie and her ex and their daughter? My answer is, yes and by your response, I believe we share the same sentiments.
Overall, you and Julie and your husbands and my ex, his wife and my husband all share a mutual respect for each other, basic common courtesy and healthy boundaries. Like you, we didn’t sit down and come to some sort of agreement. We just respect each other’s families and boundaries and I think this is why we have such a friendly relationship. We aren’t best friends like you and Julie, but we do communicate well, resolve our differences amicably (we dont’ always agree either) and overall, respect each other. I love the fact that you said there certainly are times when you make your respective positions known, but you don’t stew over it to the point where it harms your family. We operate in the same manner. Sure there are times when we (either my ex and I or his wife and I) get spitting mad at each other, but we make every effort to work towards some sort of resolution. But again, we aren’t best friends and we don’t do joint vacations or holidays together. Yet, my son has extremely benefited from our friendly relationships; one that is equipped with healthy boundaries.
Thanks for your insight,
*Kela*
Kela,
Yes, we are on the same page. Another note, that I mean’t to put in my previous comment is that the friendship that Julie and I share outside of being an ex and current wife is separate from our family ties. Julie is a person that I surely would have been able to be friends with had we not been interconnected. Obviously, as statistics prove, this doesn’t usually work for most people, but we are fortunate that it works for us and it enhances our family life not just for us, but for all of us.
Di