Help! I Need the BFSO Advisory Board
January 12, 2009 by Diane Greene
Filed under Advisory Board, Daily Dose
BFSO readers, I need your opinion. I have been opining this subject for a while now. Actually, it is eating away at me because I have always tried really hard to not let what an ex does or doesn’t do or something he says or doesn’t say to me bother me. My 19 year old son, L’s, father lives in California. We were married for 5 years. During that time, as I have written before, he was very physically abusive to me in front of my two older boys. My oldest son was not his biological child.
Last May, when my son graduated high school, my ex and I got into a huge argument, over the phone over his car insurance payment. The only thing I ask him to do is pay his car insurance $72.00 a month and that has only been since he was 17. So, the first 17 years, he never paid a dime of support or helped me in anyway. He didn’t work when we were married. Anyway, at the time of our argument, he said to me “Diane, our son is 19. I don’t have to have anything else to do with you. I don’t have to talk to you, I can talk to L from now on.” That really made me think. How do you say that to the mother of your child? If it weren’t for me, he wouldn’t have his only son, his namesake.
Well, he’s right. He doesn’t. But, that really hurt me. I raised this boy on my own, got the crap beat out of me by this man, and now he just writes me off because our son is 19. I think what bothers me more is that my son WANTS a relationship with him. For some reason, I feel a little bit betrayed by my son. I was the one struggling, making $15,000 a year, eating oatmeal at night so the boys could eat what little meat I could afford to buy. I was the one crying at night wondering how I was gonna pay the daycare that next week, buy groceries and have enough money to last me to the next paycheck.
I never asked for child support from him, not a dime. We divorced when my son was 4. I was so afraid of him that I didn’t want him to have any reason to come around us. The court ordered supervised visitation, with no overnights and that he seek batterers treatment counseling, etc. The court did order child support, but I stipulated that he didn’t have to pay it and I moved away. My question is….why would my son want a relationship with him when he has done NOTHING for him, ever? Needless to say, from the time my son was 8 through now, 19, my son has seen him a total of 4 times. Now that he is 19, my ex tries to have a father-son relationship with him, calls him on his cell, talks about the Lakers; which is both of their favorite team. My son acts like they are the best of friends and it makes me almost physically sick because he has no idea the pain this man has caused me. Just the raising of this man’s voice still scares me to this day. My son doesn’t see that pain. My son doesn’t understand the things his dad took away from me during those years of abuse. He took everything from me. My self-esteem, my self-worth, my pride and he placed fear in my heart. Why does he want to have anything to do with him? I know I am being selfish. My son deserves a relationship with his father….but he is a horrible father. I have forgiven my ex, but I haven’t forgotten and I guess, I didn’t expect my son to forget either.
It bothers the heck out of me. HELP!!!!!
Diane
I used to be afraid when someone would say, "who does she think she is?" Now, I have the courage to stand up and say, "This Is Who I Am!" Remember, to be who you are, not who people expect you to be. Contrary to what some people may believe, the authentic you IS good enough.
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Hi…
Funny… I have had similar thoughts/feelings about my kids relationship with my ex (their mother).
On one hand, wisdom tells me that it is best for the kids if they have a good relationship with their Mom. No matter what kind of a sociopath I experience her to be.
On the other hand, I want to yell from the roof tops and warn my kids and the rest of the world of what a manipulative, selfish, destroyer she is.
I have resigned to go more with my “on the first hand” option. It has taken many years, but I have learned the meaning and value of “acceptance”. Acceptance does not mean that I agree with what is going on. It also does not mean that I endorse what is going on. I simply accept that it does indeed go on and don’t rent it any space in my head to the best of my ability.
I have also learned that life has its own equalizing force. Truth simply comes out in time and the unfolding of life. I have wanted so badly to tell my kids that their mother ran off with her other man. I want so badly to dispell the lies she has told them about the innocence of her actions in running around with this guy while were were still married and how painful that was to me and our families.
I want so badly to tell my kids what my ex’s own father said about his own daughter’s behaviour with the other man. I want so badly to tell my kids how many people wanted to punch the other man out.
Yet, for the sake of my kids relationship with their mother, I just let it be. I let them believe what she has misrepresented to them. For me to speak up would be a no-win.
Dr. Phil puts it, “Would your rather be right than happy?”. For me, I would rather be happy. I will leave “right” for others to conclude on their own.
Now here ist he good part… my daughter (age 14) has for the first time in this 6-year cover-up finally say to me, “Dad, I wish you would forgive Mom, everyone makes mistakes”.
This was the first indication that any of my kids saw through the BS my ex had told them about her relationship with the other man while still married to me.
So for me, the conclusion is to encourage a relationship between my kids and their mother…. even though she is a sociopath. And unless I see danger brewing, I will not intevene. I will instead let life unfold and let my kids discover their own truth. This will make a far greater impression on them than anything I try to convince them of.
Yet I understand a similar pain to what you describe. It is not easy. But I believe you can make it through.
Ciao.
Chaz
http://www.yuppieaddict.wordpress.com
Di,
Whew! This post really made me think. First off, I completely sympathize with your position as a former battered woman. I imagine it’s a state of being that almost never truly goes away. Like you mentioned in your post, you either still fear that person; or you use that past experience as a guide that leads you through the rest of your life. Meaning, some women remain in fear and some use it as a reminder of what they will never allow to happen to them again. Either way, that memory holds you hostage, huh?
I would also imagine that you have your mama bear hat on, too! This is a man who was verbally and physically abusive and in my own mind, I would be doubtful about his parenting skills. But, at age 19, you can’t allow that to prevent your son from having a relationship with his father. Your son is capable of figuring his father out for himself. The universe has a way of correcting itself, and if he is still the same man that you married long ago, L will be able to see that. And, like Chaz said, only intervene when you see danger brewing. Other than that, allow the relationship and try not to allow your old wounds to create new wounds for your son. Your son is not betraying you by wanting a relationship with his father. He is not in debt to you due to his father’s past actions.
I went to church on Sunday and what the pastor said really resonated with me. He said to love like you’ve never been hurt, live like you’ve never been sick (whether it’s physical, mental or emotional) and give (your time, love, money, and even forgiveness) like it’ll never run out. God has a way of replinishing things that we feel we can never get back. As such, you should do what you’re supposed to do and leave the rest to Him.
Be Blessed,
*Kela*
Chaz and Kela,
Thank you. I needed to read both of those posts and you are both SO right. “give forgiveness.” I will focus more on that.
I do admit, I am a mama bear at times. I am a little bitter that I bust my butt to pay for my son’s college tuition, books, etc. etc. and he never offers up any help. I am a little distressed that my son doesn’t see this. However, like Chaz mentioned, through his life experiences, maybe one day he will.
I know my son is not in debt to me for anything his father ever did, but I just am hurt because kids whether they are 19 or 9 never understand the sacrifices their parents go through to make them who they are. I have worked so hard to teach my sons all the things that I believe will make them into great men, great husbands and great fathers, but I am surely realizing that I am their mother and I can’t teach them how to be a man, period. That is where their fathers come in. Unfortunately, I don’t L to ever be the kind of man his father is or was. Hopefully, for L, Jr.s sake, L, Sr. has changed.
I mean’t to say……Unfortunately, yes, the memory always holds us hostage. It is always in the back of our minds. But, I have learned from my experiences and I will never go back to that place and allow someone to ever hurt me that way again. Rest assured. But, memories never change.
Diane, I’m so sorry you’re going through this right now. I know it’s so hurtful for you, to see your son having a relationship with this man and I’m so sorry for that. I often talk with my daughter about her father, who was abusive to me, and hardly has anything to do with her. She’s really smart and already has him figured out, but I worry that one day she’ll want to have a relationship with him, and it will only end up hurting her. I wouldn’t know what to do about that.
The other aspect of him saying that he doesn’t have to talk with you anymore…I can honestly say that I CAN NOT WAIT, until my step-daughter turns 18 and we do not have to deal with her mother anymore. But, what makes me so sad about it is that her mother has other options…to be nice, which she would never choose, and I just don’t get it.
Even after all the crap that my daughters dad has put me through, the abuse, the stalking, the kidnapping, the threats, being held against my will…I’m nice to him now for my daughter. I harbor no ill will toward him, and I honestly have forgiven him for all of that junk. My biggest worry is that she will allow him to hurt her when she’s an adult because I can no longer protect her.
I’ll keep you and your family in my prayers. Sometimes turning it over to God is the hardest thing to do, but the best. Good luck and I wish you peace with this.
Stacy, what wonderful advice coming from someone who has actually been through something similar. I so appreciate all of the BFSO readers being so open about their experiences in order to help others. It’s just such a blessing! Thanks for sharing your insight, Stacy! It’s more valuable than you probably think it is.
*Kela*
Stacy, thank you!
You know, reading your post was refreshing. Even though it was in the scope of something bad, it was good to hear that someone feels the way I feel. I have gotten over the abuse, but the fear is still ingrained in my heart and I am petrified that my son will glorify a man who doesn’t deserve my son’s presence in his life. He helped me make create my son and that was it. He didn’t help me raise him and he shouldn’t bask in the glory after all of my hard work. I am being bitter, I know but I don’t want any of my ex’s bad habits to rub off on my son. No way, no how!
Thanks for all the good advice!
Diane,
I just had the chance to read through this post and the comments made in regards to it. The general perspective given at this point has been from those who have experienced what you are experiencing so I would like to mix things up a little and offer you some words from the ‘child’s’ perspective. You said that your son is 19 now. I am only 8 years older so telling you how I have felt (and still do feel) about the situation regarding my own father (whom the last time I had seen was when I was around 4 years old) may offer you some insight as to what your son is going through and the way he sees things.
I have written briefly about my childhood in the past but I will recap with some additional info so that everyone is on the same page. My mother and bio-father had me. They weren’t married or even living together. One of my earliest memories in my life was when I was probably 2 or 3 years old and they got into a huge fight. I remember crawling toward my mother when things we getting really heated and my father sort of kicked/pushed me back with his foot. I don’t recall seeing him again after that until I was around 4 years old and my mom had just given birth to my little brother (who is also his.) He must have come over to see me and his son, but I remember remembering him and what happened the last time I had seen him and I ran and hid under my bed- crying. I haven’t see or heard from him since.
I have always wondered about him. Even though I experienced first hand at an extremely young age a very bad side of him, because I never really knew him in his entirety I always wondered. Even after all of these years of my mother telling me that he was ‘just a sperm donor’ and ‘an asshole’ and that ‘he never wanted anything to do with you’ and ‘he has never paid a penny of child support’, I still wondered. Since I moved out of my parents house when I was 17, I have struggled with whether or not I should try and find my father and find out for myself who he really is and why things turned out the way that they did. I am all about second chances and giving people the opportunity to tell their side of the story.
Having said all this, you may wonder then- why is it that I still have yet to ‘meet’ this man? Truthfully, it’s because of my mother. Diane, my mom feels the exact same way that you do and she has never spared a word in telling me so. She has essentially made me feel like the single worst thing I could do in my life would be to seek out my father, that it would be the ultimate in disrespect for her if I were to do so. I honestly think that if I did and she were to find out, that I would be disowned as her daughter forevermore. For over 20 years, despite my great desire to know more about myself, about the man my mother chose to not only be my father but my brother’s father as well, about the family I’ve never known (he has another son around my brother’s age), about my heritage, about any family history of medical problems; because my mother has instilled so much fear in me of the repercussions, I just could not bring myself to do it.
So here I am, still wondering. I wonder if things were not all that they seemed. Sure there is that one memory I had of him, but look how long ago that was. Could it be possible that I had simply conjured that memory on my own as a result of everything my mother kept telling me so that I could feel the same way she did instead of longing for the father I never had? Or, if it did in fact happen and he was everything my mom said he was; that was 25 years ago, maybe he’s not the same man that he was back then. People grow, they sometimes learn from their mistakes and change. Doesn’t he deserve the chance for me to hear him out? You may throw out the whole ‘well he could have contacted you’ or ‘he should have tried harder to be a part of your life back then’ but even Kela has said that some bio-moms make things so difficult for the dads that they just give up. I know my mother and I can say with great confidence that if he had tried to be a part of my life without being with her, she would have never allowed for it to happen. So he may very well have but I will never know for sure until I ask him. The more time goes on the more I am beginning to realize that I may not have a lot of time left to sit on the fence like this. Anything can happen and if he were to die tomorrow, all the answers to all my questions die right along with him and then what do I do? At least right now the questions are floating around with the possibility of being answered and I suppose that possibility has been enough to keep me procrastinating on meeting him but what do I do with them all if I don’t get the opportunity to ask them? I will be left with a giant hole that can never be filled.
It has been a truly difficult decision to make.
I guess this is ultimately what I have to say about being a child that wants a relationship with a father that was never there. First: regardless of the circumstances of the situation, the child is always going to wonder and have questions that the answers you give just aren’t going to satisfy. We want to hear it from the source. Second: we as children who want to have a relationship with the absent parent are not trying to undermine, hurt, or defy you. It is not that we don’t appreciate everything you have done for us and for being the one that was there, because we do. It’s not that we aren’t sorry for what you have suffered because we are, because we have suffered too. The absent father may never be able to or want to make things right by the mother, but if he is willing to do so by the child then he should by all means be given the chance- for the child’s sake. Diane, I don’t know your ex, but I hardly think that he is going to sit your son down and say “now let me show you the proper way to abuse your wife.” God at least I hope not. Maybe all these years he has been absent not because he didn’t want to be a father to his son, but because he didn’t know how. Some parents that have been there for their children all along don’t truly bond with them until they too are adults. It sounds to me that you ex is trying to find his relationship with your son and for whatever reason, feels more comfortable doing so now that he is an adult as opposed to before. It may hurt you like hell, but you have to try your best to remember that you son deserves this and that he needs this. Whatever you do, please don’t make him feel like my mother has made me feel because it puts us in a position where we feel like we have to choose when in reality we have the right to have both.
I hope that I have been able to help. I don’t want you to think that anything I have said is in any way putting you down or disagreeing with how you feel or saying that you are like my mother because that is not at all what I am saying. I am simply giving my perspective as a child in relation to my own situation and how I think it relates to your own.
Good luck with everything and I hope that it all works out well for everyone involved.
Take care,
~Danielle
Danielle,
Wow! I truly appreciate and so love hearing the insight that comes from the adult children who have suffered as a result of a broken family. It truly puts things into perspective. Often times, we as parents tend to speak for our children and even base our actions on what we think they want. Actually hearing from a child of divorce or a blended family, whether still a child or an adult really helps us make sense of the situation. I sincerely appreciate you stating your feelings so openly, honestly and eloquently.
Many of the BFSO readers are aware of my position on these types of issues. I do feel that children deserve to have relationships with both parents. And, it shouldn’t matter what our relationships are or were with their bio parent. We should NEVER punish the children or put them in a position where their loyalties are divided because we were unable to make our relationship work. With that said, I’ve never been a battered woman, and I would imagine that it’s very difficult to never allow those memories to take precedence over decisions that you make regarding your children and your abuser/their father. As such, I sympathize with Diane a great deal. However, I do firmly believe in second chances because at some point we might all need one – a second chance, or a third or fourth.
Danielle, please don’t be afraid to reach out to your father. I know that sometimes the fear of rejection or simply not knowing how that absent relative will react prevents us from acting. But, it is so important for you to get the answers that you need in order to finish writing that chapter in your life or close the book altogether. Either way, you get closure and you won’t spend your whole life wondering ‘what if.’
My father’s side of the family is very blended. His brothers and sisters have been married so many times that I’ve lost count. I also have a few uncles that are estranged, for various reasons, from their children. And, I have some that were estranged for years before finally reconnecting. I’ve talked to several of my cousins who were once in your position, and even when their fathers remained inconsistent, they still didn’t regret reconnecting with them and their family because they gained so many other positive relationships in the process. My point is, think of all the positives that can be birthed from such a reunion. Or, on the flip side, your father could be everything your mother said he was,but either way you get the answers that you need; which can still be perceived as positive.
Danielle, thank you for sharing your story. Always a pleasure hearing from you!
*Kela*
Danielle,
Thank you so much for your insight and comments. I truly appreciate them. I don’t take them harshly at all. Actually, it’s something I need to hear. The one thing I have never done is talk harshly about my ex in front of my son. I haven’t even shared my feelings with my son. He knows nothing except that we have periodic arguments over the phone about his constantly being late paying his insurance. Other than that, I am actually the one that bought his plane tickets to go out to California to see him. He couldn’t even do that. But, I totally understand where you are coming from. My son wants to identify with his father because, I believe, all boys want that in their life. Someone to hold on to and look up to.
My son did tell me that during the last visit, his father sat him down and told him that he did things wrong. That he hit me and that he was sorry and has learned from his mistakes and asked L, Jr. to forgive him. But, he has never asked me for my forgiveness and I think that is what bothers me. I am all for second chances and changing, but a part of that is accepting responsibility and owning up to what has happened especially to the one who experienced the pain. I owned up to my part a long time ago. However, even though I didn’t deserve physical abuse, I did play a part in the frustrations. For that, I have owned up to myself.
Thank you, again, you have made me think about a lot of things this evening. I will pray hard on this.
Diane