Divorce, Child Support and Equally Taking Care of Children
March 9, 2009 by Kela Price
Filed under Daily Dose, Stepfamilies
Last week I was perusing some of my favorite blogs when I ran into a post on ex-wives and child support payments. An ex-wife was really upset because she felt as if her ex-husband was neglecting his four children in order to give his second wife the finer things in life. Below is an excerpt from her letter on www.glennsacks.com.
“I think as a ex-wife I can say that men want the cake and bring a jug of milk, too! I have 4 children, and my ex is still with the woman he left us for. I can say that this slut woman comes before his children. Am I upset? Damn right. I could care less who he puts in his bed, but do I care if my children have what they should have or need. He takes his bitch on trips, and is never there for the kids. Oh, and this woman came to my baby shower for my last son, to let me know my ex was with her. As to child support, it isn’t enough to cover basic needs.
“The facts show that a child’s living standard goes down by 48% [after divorce]. That is a lot, but the men don’t have to look the kids in the eye and see the hurt when you tell them they can’t have something or play a sport because you can’t afford it. Just so long as daddy is happy! Man up and do right by your kids, even if you didn’t by your ex.
I took some time to really think about the reader’s letter and the subsequent comments from other readers who weren’t too pleased with her perspective. I have mixed feelings about what she said. What I don’t understand is why she is so upset with the second wife. Why do women so quickly turn on each other? Her ex-husband is the one who left her for this woman, and I’m certain that he didn’t do it at gun point. If he is choosing to take his second wife on trips instead of paying child support, then why are you upset with her? Your ex-husband has a responsibility to his children and you have no child support agreement with her. It’s not her fault so don’t displace your anger. Now, I can understand a woman being disappointed and questioning the second wife’s moral character for choosing a man who doesn’t or barely takes care of his children. But, I don’t understand being upset to the point where you are calling her sluts or bitches; that’s uncalled for, in my opinion.
I know some women will disagree with me saying that it IS the other woman’s responsibility to NOT date a married man, but it is my belief that the man you took vows with bears most of the responsibility for protecting your marriage. Either she may not have even known about you, or you don’t know what he has told her about your marriage.
Readers were outraged with what she had to say regarding the child support issue, and this is what I took the most time to ponder. I wanted to be certain as to how I felt about the issue prior to writing. Below is what some of the readers had to say:
1. This women obviously doesn’t understand the fact that the NCP’s child support payment are not supposed to COVER her costs of raising children. It is his HALF. Everytime I hear a custodial parent complain “he only sends me 10,000/year, how can I raise a kid on that?” I cringe. The custodial parent is supposed to contribute the same amount in proportion to her income. You are now divorced. You have to get a job and work. Your husband has another household to run, he is paying his share for the kids and that is ALL! (and the CS formulations are way too high to begin with, NO kid costs what the tables say, but you will NEVER hear a custodial parent say that, no matter how much the NCP sends, it is NEVER enough for them).
2. As to child support, it isn’t enough to cover basic needs.’ bull…woman who know how to use (yes, abuse) the system get what they deserve based on MATH, not what she bitterly laments later as insufficient ‘to cover basic needs’. WAKE UP MOTHER! You have the kids so YOU have to pay for shelter for YOU. Your kids money is for THEIR FOOD and THEIR CLOTHS, PERIOD.If your respective financial conditions changed to warrent you ‘deserving’ more, it’s YOUR option to take it back to support court. In lieu of that, it’s YOUR responsibility to better budget your money. Buy cheaper food, buy cheaper cloths, and DON’T spend it elsewhere.While, if it’s true that your husband left you, know that betrayal works both ways to dear one. How about losing the home that your income alone bought, to your ex spouse after she took up with a boy 12 years her junior next door? Don’t cry about it, do something about it, or quit your bitchin.!
As an ex, the more I thought it about it, the angrier I got! Why is it that men always want to talk about their HALF only when it comes to their financial responsibility? If by your own assertion we are supposed to EQUALLY (that’s what HALF means, right?) take care of the child, then why are your mouths closed when it comes to doing your HALF in the areas of emotional and physical support as well? And, before you start talking about your little every other weekend or summer (for those of you who live out of state or the country) visitation, let me assure you that that doesn’t equate to HALF; it’s only about an eight of what we full-time parents do.
My husband and his ex-wife used to (prior to her preventing him from doing so, due to my arrival) equally care for their son after their divorce. My husband kept him for nearly 8 months out of the year and she had him for the remainder of the year. They also shared the financial responsibility for him, even though my husband physically had him more. Fellas, this is called HALF; more than HALF supporting your child.
So the next time you go screaming to your ex-wife about your HALF, be sure to check yourself to be certain that you’re doing your HALF in all of the other areas as well. If you want to continually question your ex-wife about how she budgets or mismanages money, be prepared to answer similar questions regarding how you mismanage your TIME!
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Whew, this is an emotional post! I would say that some of the comments in responses #1 and #2 are a bit extreme. I am a mother and a step-mother. My husband pays child support but before we got married and during his single years in between, he was horrible with that responsibility. When we got together, I knew he was very behind in his payments, etc. I thought back to something my mother once told me years ago to always remember:
A MAN THAT DOESN’T TAKE CARE OF HIS OWN…..WILL NEVER TAKE CARE OF YOU AND YOURS! IT WILL ALWAYS BE ALL ABOUT HIM! AND, IF HE DOES TAKE CARE OF YOU AND NOT HIS OWN CHILDREN….THEN HE AINT SHIT NO WAY. [EXCUSE MY LANGUAGE -- BUT THOSE WERE HER EXACT WORDS]
I have lived by that statement in choosing a man. I refused to get completely serious with my husband unless that responsibility was first and foremost on his list of priorities. By the time I was 21, I had two children, yes, HALF of the responsibility was mine but as it most always turns out, ALL of the responsibilty ended up being on me, the mother. I know what that feels like and I could not do all the things I could have done for my older boys if I had gotten child support on a regular basis.
Do I feel that some women take advantage of the system and of their ex-husbands at times and the courts do not take in every factor that may be on a man’s plate, YES. But, unfortunately, there are way more mothers that are trying really hard to take care of their children on their own than there are fathers who pay their child support on a regular and timely basis. And, unfortunantly, some of those good/responsible fathers end up with the short end of the stick. To them, I say, if circumstances have changed in your and your ex-wives financial portfolio and you know it, don’t be afraid to petition the court to reduce your child support and/or try to increase your visitation/custody time. All of that factors into how much child support you pay. A lot of good fathers are afraid of the court system because so many bad fathers have screwed it up for them. The system can work for you but make sure you are doing all the right things before you take that step. Also, if there are men who are out there that believe that the child support funds that they pay are being mis-managed or not being used for the child/children, depending on your state’s laws, you can ask for a detailed accounting of the way the child support is spent. I know I have seen that happen here in Indiana on cases and usually the issues are extreme, but just in case some of our readers are men who are having major problems in this area, you can bring this to the court’s attention and at least give it a try.
Additionally, I agree with Kela that the responsibility lies with the man regarding who should be held accountable if blame is to be placed anywhere. Julie and I were just talking about this issue this weekend. Now, do I feel that the other woman coming to her baby shower and telling her that she is having an affair with her husband is a little over the top! Uh….ABSOLUTELY and that was very immature and uncivilized of her to do but this man needs to be the one that the wife holds responsible. He is her husband. He vowed to love, honor and cherish her until death. Not the other woman. Unfortunately for her, I feel that she is still hurt and emotionally scarred and is placing blame in a woman who really never had control over her marriage in the first place.
Thanks for a great post, Kela.
Di
I guess this is the flip side of the original post.
My ex just emailed me to tell me she is taking kids on a luxurious trip for spring break. We hd not agreement for who would have access for spring break. She avoids dialogue for this very reason.
I am paying her child support for which she never thanks me. Plus she got spousal support when she left me for the other man.
Now she notifies me that she is taking the kids. She does not ask for my agreement or colaboration, she just freakin well takes them. And complains I do not pay enough.
I guess there is selfishness and injustice on both from any gender of walk-away spouse.
I am years past my divorce. I am remarried. This shit still hurts and is completely unjust.
There, I have said it. Now time to move on.
Thanks for listening.
Thanks for your post. It was timely in reminding me that any one and any gender can be selfish. Takes a littel of the sting off the news I just got.
Ciao.
Chaz
http://www.yuppieaddict.wordpress.com
Chaz,
You are so completely right; both genders can definitely be selfish! My husband’s ex-wife does the same thing. She PREVENTS my husband from seeing my stepson but then she complains that my husband doesn’t see him and he doesn’t pay enough, huh??? And, I can tell that it does hurt my husband. The worst part is that we actually have a visitation order in place that SHE TOTALLY IGNORES! We have been fighting for 8 years on the same issue; her refusal to adhere to the orders that are in place, but honestly, it has gotten us no where. We’ve accepted that this is the way it’s going to be until my stepson is 18 and we’re moving on with our lives. Sometimes, in order to keep your sanity, you have to make such decisions. Otherwise, we could be fighting until he’s 18, but that won’t be beneficial to ANYONE in our blended family.
I didn’t forget about the fathers who actually do desire to be more involved in their child(ren)’s lives, but are just prevented from doing so, Chaz. I know this side all too well as well. I am a firm believer that there are some deadbeat dads who have just spoiled it for the good fathers out there. Some of you aren’t disinterested fathers; you’ve just simply grown tired of fighting. By that same token, there are mothers out there who claim that the father doesn’t want to see their children, but they are the very ones who play that ‘keep away game.’ If the father doesn’t do or does something she doesn’t agree with, then he can’t see his child. This is what my next post will be about so stay tuned.
*Kela*
Chaz,
I completely agree with you. All school breaks should be discussed in advance because most divorce decrees have a provision outside of the normal visitation schedule that says…(for example) “and all other visitation per the Indiana state guideline.” This guideline or “other visitation” usually includes general school breaks, holidays, etc. And, normally, plans regarding school breaks in general, etc. usually requires written notice with advance notice. This simple language is often ignored by the primary custodial parent and can leave them open to being in violation and/or contempt of court if the matter is pushed by the other party. I know from experience that attorneys love to jump on that issue, especially when that visitation has been completely ignored. If you live in the same state as your ex, you should push to reserve your vistitation rights. I think it is utterly ridiculous that some primary custodial parents do not think it is necessary to discuss such matters with the non-custodial parent, especially if that parent is doing what he or she is supposed to do and is paying child support.
And, just as an FYI, the matter of child support is totally separate from the matter of child visitation. They do not go hand in hand even though many people think they do and withhold visitation, etc. But, I do feel that child support is very important and should be paid, regardless.
Chaz, I hope this all works out for you. Keep pounding the pavement and go to court if you have to….your children will be better for it!
Di
First of I want to say great post, Kela, and thank you for introducing us to the link http://www.glennsacks.com. I spent an entire evening perusing the articles and have to say that I was maddeningly disgusted by the abuses that take place in the child support collection system.
Now don’t get me wrong, I totally agree with your belief that the whole ‘half and half’ part of supporting your child needs to be fulfilled all across the board in all aspects of the child’s life. However, there appears to be a frightening trend occurring where the fathers in question ARE doing their best to provide equality in care (although in many instances they are stonewalled by the mother from doing so) but when it comes to the financial aspects, they are expected to ‘make up the difference’ in money for the areas of support they are unable to provide half of. It’s almost as though they are being required to pay their exes for the additional ‘time and effort’ they are putting into parenting when in fact many of those exes put themselves in that position by not allowing the father equal time to parent with equal effort because they did not want to share equal custody. It’s sad and furthermore, what is it teaching the children and our society as a whole? Hopefully, the children in these cases are none the wiser because their parents are responsible and do not discuss child support issues with or in front of them but there are always the instances where, for one reason or another, the children are aware of the whole support dispute and what do you think they are learning from it? That money is ample replacement for time, attention, love and essentially the role a father has in their life? “I don’t get to spend as much time with my Dad as I do my Mom but at least at my Mom’s I have name brand clothes, get to take nice vacations a few times a year, and have lots of cool toys to play with.” It begins to skew the values these children are being raised with. It can also hamper the father/child relationship, especially if the father is unable to provide the child with the same amenities as the mother does. Sure, the fathers should then be instilling in the child that money, vacations, material possessions, and other such luxuries aren’t as important as quality time with family but if you throw in the fact that these fathers don’t have equal visitation time on top of the inconsistency between households, you can imagine how difficult it is to reinforce those values enough to make a difference. The child then spends visitation with their father talking about ‘how much better it is at their mom’s house’ because they have ‘such and such toy there’ or they ‘love their mom more’ because she takes them out to eat a couple times a week and they get to go to Disney World a couple times a year. It’s a terrible scenario to imagine but it DOES happen- alot. We already live in a world where the media cons you into believing that you are only as good as the possessions you have, now it appears that many mothers are using the same tactic to win their children’s affections and unfortunately it is working. It makes me sad on so many different levels. I feel bad for the fathers who are doing the best they can but are still losing their children, I feel bad for the children in second families that are treated by the system in a way that says ‘because your half-sibling came first, they deserve better life than you’, but most of all I feel bad for the children of divorced parents who are going to grow up thinking that their father doesn’t love them as much as their mother because they are being taught that money and possessions are what you use to measure it.
Thanks for the comments, Danielle!
I totally agree with you! Fortunately, this situation is far from one-sided and can be debated in a number of different ways depending upon who’s talking. For instance, there are definitely those fathers who do all they possibly can to provide for their children, spend more than adequate time, and overall do what’s best for their children. Unfortunately, these same fathers are shot down over and over and over again by the ex-wife who makes it extremely difficult or darn near impossible for him to continue to do right by his children; all while demanding more money to meet HER needs. As stated in my previous comment, it baffles me that some women keep their child away from their father, but then play the victim in court by stating that he doesn’t spend enough time with his child. Or, they dictate certain rules and regulations regarding visitation (you can only spend time with him, but when you’re at work he must go to my parents’ house, etc.) and if you don’t adhere to them, then you can’t see your child. It’s all about their control issues and it’s definitely teaching the child that time should go to the highest bidder. That being said, I’ve been on the other side of the fence as well where the father isn’t around, in my case, it’s due to his profession, but that’s irrelevant because the child still has to be supported. And, if you aren’t present for 10 months out of the year, then you should be more than half financially responsible for him because I’m fully responsible for him in all of the other areas. If we are both equally responsible for him, then I wouldn’t be concerned with the financial because it evens itself out. If my son spent more time with his biological father, then my bills for him would decrease. For example, I would buy less food because he’d be over there eating during that time (I have a 12 year old whose father is an athlete; he can eat you out of house and home). I’d spend less money on gas because his father would share in the responsibility of transporting him back and forth to his activities, to school and so on. But, you can’t tell me that my husband and I have to be completely responsible for him in all other areas, but you can just pitch in HALF in the financial area. This is not teaching the child that money is more important than time; one has nothing to do with the other. The fact of the matter is that children cannot be raised on love alone and it’s crucial that BOTH parents do their HALF in ALL areas in order to effectively raise their children. Again, I completely understand the other side too [where the mother keeps the child away, but demands more money]. Neither is okay!! The optimal solution is for it to be equal across the board however; if for some reason one parent’s time with the child is significantly limited due to work or by choice, then that parent needs to pick up more of the financial responsibility for the child.
Always a pleasure,
*Kela*
I agree with both Danielle and Kela, but the fact still remains that some mothers still will not allow equal visitation and/or custody even if a father’s work environment does not keep him away. Most of the time it is due to her own insecurity but it happens all the time, they want the money, but don’t want to share the child. I have seen it time and time again working in the legal field. Unfortunately, in some states, the courts seem to wrap around the old idea that the mother is always best for the child for primary custody. That view has been significantly changing over the past 10 years in most states, but it still happens. My ex husband has 3 daughters by his second wife and he received primary custody of all three of them and she pays child support to him.
Anyway, I think all and all, there are lots and lots of good fathers that do the right thing and get the shaft and, unfortunately, way more fathers that don’t help out at all and they make it hard on the good fathers. There are also lots of good mothers that encourage visitation and even make sacrifices to their own times with their child/children to allow extra visitation but there are mothers that are selfish and self-centered and make it hard on good fathers. Unfortunately, those children will grow up and be resentful because of it.
You’re right, Diane. As I stated earlier, this topic can be debated a number of different ways depending on who’s talking.
Also, let it be known that I DO NOT CONDONE a parent keeping their child away from the other parent due to child support. I would never discourage or prevent my son from seeing his father and second mom just because our views differ on what’s fair for both parties to financially contribute. I firmly believe unless my child is being put in harm’s way, I will never be the one to damage their relationship because I don’t want my son to end up resenting me. I stand by my belief that individually you have to be responsible for your own actions, and you can’t react impulsively because your ex does something that you don’t like. You should ALWAYS do right by your child(ren) in spite of what your ex is doing and in the end, what’s done in the dark always comes to light as the universe definitely has a way of correcting itself!
Amen! I totally agree with you. I also feel that when husbands and wives are going through divorce, usually they don’t do enough to work these issues out themselves. They are hurt and they try to stick eachother. Even working in this field, I have determined that yes the courts are here to protect people and their individual rights, but parents (at least good parents) should be able to work out some of these issues without a judge and attorneys who know nothing about them or their families. A father that has always been in his child’s life should still be able to remain in that child’s life. Joint custody should automatically be granted and vice versa for the mother. I just think people don’t think about the children enough to make sacrifices for their emotional well-being during and after divorce.
Kela…. thanks for understanding.
In particular, you seem to be familiar with the “keep away” game as you accurately call it. Also the fact that those of us on the limited end of the game do indeed grow weary.
Yes, we have a shared custody/access order… but how many of us can afford financially and emotionally to play this card as frequently as the other parent puts up these subtle road blocks to time with our kids.
The “subtle” aspect is in fact the draining part. Subtle manipulations are harder to detect and harder to verify to others what is going on.
Case in point… my ex will notify me that she is taking the kids on a trip close to the date after she has already told the kids. So for me to put my foot down (which I have in the past), would then leave her to say to the kids that I prevented the trip (which she has).
Ok, this is not illegal, but it is sneaky, manipulative, sublte, and underhanded. Because she has primary residence, she has developed routines where whe can spend as much time with kids as she pleases. Any time I have is “granted” to me.
One positive thing on the horizon. My 15-year-old has made a few comments that reveal to me that she is aware of certain games and injustices in our divorced family dynamics. She is extremely bright and perceptive.
I am certain my daughter will contine to grow in her peceptiveness. So life is addressing some of these injustices on its own.
I too am resigned to accept that things are not as they ideally should be or how I would ideally like them. So my task is to do the best I can with things as they are. It still hurts from time to time. But any time it does, I just tell myself two things…
1. It is supposed to hurt. Missing your kids and getting ripped off just do.
2. It will pass. And it will pass sooner if I look for what I can be
grateful for in the circumstance and then dump a bucket of acceptance over everything else.
Ciao.
Chaz
Di….
I agree that all shool and statutory holidays should be agreed in advance. My ex just peferes to avoid. And short of emotionally and financially costly efforts to hold her accountable…. which frankly, I am done with…. there is no way for me to make changes easily.
So I have opted to continue to do my best and see my kids as much as I can, and simply accept the rest. It is actually a fabulous life lesson for many areas of life. There is very little we can control in life. But that which we can, we have a duty to get busy with that narrow range of things and dilligently do our best.
I have also gone to family members who have had influence on her in the past. Sadly, one of them died recently. Which actually my ex partlially used as an excuse to stop counselling with me regarding issues with our kids.
Again, it is the subtle manouvers that are hard to deal with.
Regarding child support and access…. I agree that they are not legally tied. Not even morally in fact. Yet I would like to meet the parent who does not feel that he/she should be treated fairly with access/visitation when they are faithfully paying child support.
Furthermore, I would like to meet the loving parent who would not find it all the more painful when they are doing all they can to provide the appropriate child support to not have fair access to their kids.
The two are not legally tied but I do not see how they can be emotionally separated. Especially for us men who have a tendancy to feel a lot of our identity as providers. This is simply an inherint thing common amongst men.
From where I stand and what I have been through, I feel that if one parent wants to walk away, then they had better be responsible enough to cooperate in thorough co-parenting strategy and efforts.
Then again, the nature of many walk-away spouses (meaning when the leave their spouse for someone else) is complete selfishness anyway so why would they be any different in their co-parenting? They have demonstrated that selfishness is in their nature. They are just being themselves.
Ciao.
Chaz
Chaz,
You are completely honest and completely right! The two aren’t legally tied, but they are in fact emotionally tied. The emotional aspect is always the hardest to deal with. When my relationship with my oldest son’s father didn’t work (granted I was 19), I played all of the games you mentioned above. Even though we later married and had another child, I regretted that with all my heart. We women, not all, but a lot of us, sometimes take good men for granted (i.e., Kela’s husband’s ex, many of our readers, etc.). You are a good man and rest assured, I promise you, one day, your children will realize the games that are being played by their mother and they WILL resent her for trying to hinder your relationship. Some of what our reader, Danielle, wrote about is a testament to this. Luckily, I got a second chance. Thanks for your posts, they really inspire me.
Di
Wow! What a subject. Very touchy but fantastic dialogue. Kela, you definitely know how to get people thinking and I appreciate you so much for that.
As a mother, a wife, and an ex-wife this subject used to be a HUGE stress factor in my life. I can say with the help of my current husband I have come to terms with the past and have moved on. What I mean by that is this: I used to group my ex-husband not paying support with him just not caring about his daughter. Back then that may or may not have been the case. I have come to realize that it was strictly the financial responsibility he just thought he didn’t have to make. Let me make this quite clear as well – NEVER DID I WITHHOLD MY DAUGHTER FROM HER FATHER WHEN HE WAS NOT PAYING SUPPORT! His financial irresponsibility had nothing to do with her and it wasn’t her fault. In her eyes her father could do no wrong and it was not up to be to destroy that for her.
He now has an exceptional wife who knows how important it is to take care of your children both emotionally and financially. The amount set for him to pay was set when we were divorced back in 1998. He had no job and no assets and the court set his payments on what his past earnings were as well as his potential earnings (not sure how they figured that). We don’t bicker about the amount and we don’t keep going back to court about it. He is helping to support his daughter and that’s all I ever asked for was HELP!! Not to be supported for my own gain but to help our daughter have a better life.
It burns me up to see these women using support and visitiation to get back at their ex’s because they were scorned and in turn using their own children as pawns. Sick! Especially when these women target professional athletes for their own gain but I’m not even going there right now. Be a woman and take care of your children and love them unconditionally. Don’t have kids because you think you’ll get something out of it financially. Have kids because you are in love with someone at the time and you want to share your life with them. Starting a family is the way to share that. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s NEVER the children’s fault so don’t carry your problems over into their lives when those problems aren’t theirs to deal with. They have enough going on being a part of a blended family. The financial aspect shouldn’t be something that children even know about. Period!
Whew!
Have a great day everyone!!!
AMEN, AMEN and AMEN AGAIN MOTHEROF3GIRLS!